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Rob's
Necrophilia Fantasy
SECTION  11
HERE TO DO RESEARCH?
Click on the WHITE selections below for quick access or simply scroll down.
My Personal Case Studies and Observations
Interview with Real Necro, Karen Greenlee
From Morgue to Mortician: The Hands That Touch You
Misc. References and Links
DOING RESEARCH?
(You can virtually do your entire research paper from my site alone!)
Well, ok... since I've put up this site I've gotten more than a few emails and inquiries from folks claiming to be doing "research" on necrophilia.  Now, common sense suggests that most of these inquiries are from individuals who are still a bit shy and are hiding why they even came here.  But sometimes I sense by nature of their inquiry that some could be legitimate.  So it is for those folks that I've put together this "research" area.*


WHAT THIS RESEARCH AREA IS ALL ABOUT
In my five plus years on the net exploring sexual kinks and fantasies I have collected some basic information that you may find helpful.  As you already know there is jack squat on the net concerning anything scientific about necrophilia, or any other sexual deviation, with any great detail.  And even in the libraries of real life there is nothing, unless maybe buried in some psych-related university library.  But even at that, everthing I have read on sexual deviations or dysfunctions (nice terms, huh?) relates only to those situations where persons have become obsessed. So what about the rest of us who are not serial killers?  I'm here to tell all you psych wannabe's that for the small percentage  of people that require counseling for obsessive sexual matters there's a whole world out there of folks with just plain fantasies.  It's the fantasies that make us truly who were are as individuals... fantasies of success, love, money, everything.  In a country that's so hung up on repressing it's own sexuality it's no surprise we have so many folks afraid of their own sexuality.  So as you do your research, report not on sexual deviations or dysfunctions, but rather report on the fantasies that makes us who we are.

- My Personal Case Studies and Observations -
Using me as a research source...
For the purposes of this site I go by my pen name, Robert Trular, and I reserve all copyrights under that name as it relates to the content of this website.  You are free to re-produce any of the content on my site (providing it does not violate the copyright of others) and reference my site as a source for your research.  Even though I am degreed in the Behavioral Sciences I am not a certified psych professional; my opinions, comments, and observations are based on academic and experiencial learning.

ABOUT THE CASE STUDIES
Actually, they are not really case studies in the sense that I am formulating some hypothesis or setting some scientific opinion.  They are really a collection of a few of the life stories real people (mostly women) have shared with me on the net regarding their feelings.   Some are long, others are one sentence.  Some are related to necrophilia, other sexual interests, fantasies, or real life traumas.  I have delicately tried to mask identities of these persons not only because of their individual privacy but because some are friends of mine.  I have also masked geographical locations unless I feel the geographical location seems to be an issue.  You as the reader/researcher can make from these cases what you will.  The Internet is far more eye-opening than any psychiatrist's couch.

MY OBSERVATIONS

DEMOGRAPHICS -
Perhaps the most glaring profile of someone into any "extreme" sexual interest (for the purpose of this discussion my definition of "extreme sexual interest" is any sexual interest that goes beyond the simple sexual intercourse) is their trait to be outgoing, creative, and wanting to be expressive in some form.  It seems that those people who have a basic self-awareness of themselves as human beings and as sexual human beings can accept their thoughts and fantasies much more than those who have a history of self-esteem problems or are naturally pessimistic.  But here we are talking about folks who have generally "normal" lives.  There also exists within the boundaries of having extreme sexual fantasies those folks who have had past trauma... that trauma being the catalyst for very enhanced sexual fantasies.  On the net I have found women to be the vast majority affected by past traumatic events... usually at the hands of men... many suffering from manic depression as a result.  A sad state of affairs to be sure, but nonetheless a reflection of our society as a whole perhaps.  If you want to review the symptoms of manic depression (bi-polar mood disorder) as it relates to heightened sexual interest and fantasies click here.

CASE STUDIES -
Remember... these are simply stories people have shared with me of their lives, or simple fantasies that prove unique in their own right.  I make no insinuations nor draw any conclusions.  

While there are many in the world with necro/sleepysex fantasies the nature of the interest is such that to experience it in real life there must exist the opportunity to do so.  For example, your job may put you in contact with dead bodies, or some event presents itself that allows you "access".  The next few cases illustrate this.

CASE #1
I met on the net one fellow who was in his mid 30's who worked for FEMA (Federal Emergency Management).  He was part of the team that searched for missing persons following a disaster, natural or man-made.  He told me his particular "favorites" were find female flood victims.  The rapid swirling water generally tears clothes off so when the corpses were found they were in various stages of being naked.  He told me of find one dead woman entangled in some brush as flood waters receded.  He was pretty far from the other search parties so after calling in his find on the radio he had time to sit and "admire", as he put it.  As he untangled the dead woman, who was completely naked, he made sure to allow his hands to roam all over her.  Apparently she looked in her late 20's or early 30's, maybe in the water only a few hours.  While he said he never did anything sexual to the dead body he did nonetheless, fondle and caress her everywhere.

CASE #2

Another such case of having an opportunity because of the job was a young man in his 20's I chatted with who was from Brazil.  He said he was a morgue attendent and his particular interest was dead males.  According to him he would fondle and even perform orally on his "customers".  He said he especially enjoyed dead men with larger organs.

CASE #3

A girl from Singapore told me she worked in a hospital morgue.  When I asked her why she was in a necro chat room she told me she was trying to undertand her feelings better regarding her desire to be dead herself.  She imagined herself being dead and guys having sex with her dead body.  She told me she walked into the morgue once and found another assistant having sex with a dead female and somehow that aroused her.

CASE #4

Sometimes you have to wonder if someone isn't just hosing you because common sense suggests what they are saying is highly suspect.  I talked with one guy from England who said him and his buddy dug up a few corpses for kicks.  Apparently the cemetary was relatively remote.  While most were disgustingly rotted he did say he dug up a girl he knew once by himself that had just been buried.  I guess she was kinda heavyset... not much to look at, according to him.  But when he dug her up he had sex with her body.  He told me she was very cold and very tight.  Then he re-buried her.
(Note: In my three years on the net this was the only story told to me of actual grave digging.)

 

Rape and sexual assault is sadly a very common story on the net.  Women are left to deal with these traumatic events and their minds do various things as the mental survival mechansims take over.  From the obesssive to the depressed, sexual fantasies are sometimes a major part of their minds looking to cope.  And after years of coping the damage is great.  One interesting thing about many manic depressives is that they exhibit high intelligence and can be very articulate and artistically expressive.  These next few cases are typical examples.

CASE #5

Betty was from New Orleans  S&M) anand in her mid 30's when I first started chatting with her.  Her particular interest was in domination/submission (D/s, as it's commonly referred to).. both the lifestyle and sexually.  She was married and had a teenage son.  She told me a revealing personal story of how she grew up in rural Louisiana in the 70's.  Her father was very abusive toward her mother, even sexually and this was not hidden from her as a child.  Her father would leave home for long periods and her mother had a difficult time keeping employed and making ends meet.  Her mother's boyfriends would stop by and it usually meant sex.. and she witnessed must of what went on.  As a pre-teen one of her mother's boyfriends took a sexual interest in her and forced himself on her.  That led to numerous later encounters.  As you would expect this traumatized Betty to no end.  Apparently her mother got the idea when Betty was 15 to sell her daughter to this ex-boyfriend for some cash.  So Betty was brought into the world of sexual submission (bondage and mental abuse.  Hard to imagine white slavery as happening in this country, harder yet to believe it as late as the 70's (and perhaps still going on for all I know).

She got pregnant very early in her life but raised her son all by herself.  When Betty graduated from high school sheer determination and stamina made her complete college... the threats and sexual assaults were gone but the effects lingered.  She told me she drifted to cutting (her wrists) for a time and some other pain inducing things to help fight the depression.  She always guarded her son and never abused him.  As an adult she married a guy who turned out being abusive, emotionally and physically.  She divorced him and married a second time... but not for love.. just security.  It was a sex-less marriage, according to her.  But she managed to have sex on the outside frequently... even with her boss.  She took sex as a completely separate entity from love... total separation for her.  She even invited me down to have sex with her (no, I didn't accept).
Betty gravitated to Internet chats in order to extend the fantasies of domination/submission and S&M... and take part in active on-line role play.

CASE #6

Mary was 15 when she was apparently date raped.. twice, by the same guy, on two separate occasions.  It was always hard trying to get Mary to open up more about this earlier time.  From what I could tell she may have not had the parental attention or guidence, or encouragement, she needed while growing up.  So I think this added to the greater problem later.  It seems she started going out with this guy about a year older than her and of course being a male teen he wanted to push the issue of sex in the relationship.  It appears that Mary surrendered to his forced advances one day to a point where she said "no" yet did little to fight him off.  Not that "no" to her meant "yes".. but she was in that point of thought where she didn't want to turn him away and felt he might leave her.  To this day she is unsure if the act was even completed.  The second time she was with him and some of his friends.  They (him and his friends) were drinking and he forced her onto a couch and raped her in front of them.. this time completing the act... because she ended up pregnant.  So now she has that trauma to deal with.

Being from rural Texas and young she was fairly naive about a fair amount of things in life and seemed to give considerable trust to those around her, suggesting perhaps a self-esteem issue prior to the rapes.  She was never sure she was pregnant.. I believe partially because of the fear of embarrassment and parental repercussions.  She ignored her body changes for the most part and at one point did confront her boyfriend's mother to see if her sudden weight gain could be because she might be pregnant.  The boy's mother denied any pregnancy could be possible and probably more due to nerves, etc., so Mary told me.  Even her boyfriend, quite understandably, said there was no way she could be pregnant.  So to her she had these "authority" figures telling her what she was feeling was simply the flu or something.  Now one would think sooner or later it would become obvious to one and all as she progressed along.  This is where her story gets quite incredible.  She claims to have been able to not show all that much (I've heard there are women who can show very little).. and her nature was to wear loose fitting clothing anyway.  So she just went along ignoring all the signs.

One day when she was alone at home she got severe pains and went into the bathroom.  She noticed blood and as she was writhing on the floor in pain she noticed the baby's head starting to come out.  She apparently slid into the bath tub, perhaps as some makeshift containment for the blood.  All during this she is crying out in pain, as one could well imagine.  She turned on the faucet for warm water to perhaps wash the blood away, relieve some pain, she wasn't sure.  At that point she recalls blacking out.  When she became conscious again there was water in the tub and baby was fully out... staring up at her from under the water.  At this point she said she took baby out of the tub and in her own way tried to get him (yes a baby boy) breathing... but to no avail.
Who knows how much time passed.  Apparently following the discharge of the afterbirth she started cleaning up the bathroom before her folks got home.  She put the baby's remains into a plastic garbage bag, walked across the road, and tossed it into the woods.

I started talking to Mary when she visited #Sleepysex on IRC one evening.  This was nearly four years later.  It was apparent she was exibiting the signs of severe depression; she had a history of cutting her hands, and even swallowing the contents of those silica gel bags that are packed with electronic equipment you buy in a store, to relieve the pain of her bouts with depression.  She became a relative recluse.. no close friends.  She turned to music and began writing her own lyrics, which of course reflected her dark moods.  And, she had developed the typical increase in sexual desire, probably also as a mental defense mechanism to cope with the depression.  The guilt of everything must have been huge for her... the tragedy of the event so traumatic.
She wrote out her story (as so many do) and shared it with me.  Her constant fear was of the authorities finding out and putting her in jail.  She went into the woods shortly after and the bag was not to be found... which led to further emotional worry for her.  At one point I had her talked into getting psych help locally but after the second visit she lost the will.. and with no one supporting her she drifted away.

Her sexual interest was sleepysex.. although not an on-line role player, would talk about it a lot.
Mary emailed me not too long ago. She's 23 now.  She told me her mom stumbled over a copy of her story while cleaning her room one day.  Often Mary and I talked about her needing to communicate with her folks.. she never wanted to, for the obvious reasons.  I guess now they know.  From what she told me, her town was quite the little Peyton Place and once her story got out (there's much more to it than I've reported in here) it was sure to embarrass half the community... her parents mostly.
I wish her well.  

CASE #7

Julie was from New York City and very much into the D/s game when I ran into her in a chat room one day.  What appealed to me about her, as with many of the others, was her apparent intelligence and ability to type a grammatically correct sentence... and she showed some level of compassion, after all she was a nurse by occupation.  She was in her mid 30's.  To this day she remains one of the most "adventurous" and avid real life sexual fantasy role players I have ever met... albeit foolish.

Her story starts shortly after she got married... she was in her early twenties.  While leaving a grocery store (in broad daylight) some guy came up to her and helped her put her stuff into her trunk.. then promptly put her into it as well.  He drove her car with her in the trunk to some wooded area where he took her out and forced her to the ground, removing her clothes he proceeded to strike her about her exposed body with a branch or twig... touching her forcefully and getting ready to rape her.  Then the cops showed up.  Apparently this guy was a bagger at the grocery so he was easy to spot... also some people saw what he did in the parking lot... and add to that the security cameras... not a swift character to be sure.  So she was easy to track by her car and the cops came to the rescue before she was hurt any more.

Now had you read this story in the local newspaper you'd think little of it other than to think the vicitm was lucky she didn't get raped and/or killed.  Well, Julie had multiple orgasms during the encounter.  That's right... the excitement, the fear, the impending doom... the adrenalin rush, was a huge sexual turn on for her.  Turns out her and hubby were pretty much into D/s and S&M sexual play so an event like this really happening was quite a thing to her.  Seems her assailant ended up going to jail... and she ended up visiting him a few times apparently developing some bond and understanding.

Now we fast forward a few years.  She has a child now.. a daughter, early teens.  By the time I met Julie hubby had gotten cancer and after a long struggle he passed away leaving Julie emotionally drained, heartbroken, and in sexual need.  She had turned to the Internet to vicariously live out her sexual fantasies.  This was in the early years of net chats.  She met a guy on line who shared her interest.  They grew closer and sexually fonder.  That's not really anything new of and by itself.  But she came up with this idea to try and repeat the assault event of years earlier.  But to make it real, her attacker... or attackers... should be unknown to her and attack her by surprise; no preset time.  This guy on the net, unknown to her save for his first name,  arranged with two other accomplices to break into her home one evening when her daughter wasn't home, and kidnap her.  Which they did (she told them where she hid a key to get in).  What followed was three days of sexual abuse... being tied up, orally taken.. anally taken... vaginally taken.. repeatedly by all three guys. She was blindfolded all the time so she could never recognize them.  She said the sexual high was tremendous... and continuous.

After she "recovered" she visited the net once again.. and after a month or so was still chatting with the mystery guy.  The chat drifted to "Wanna try that again?" apparently.  She wasn't sure.  But that didn't matter.  The guys came to her house again.. this time daughter and housekeeper were home and they got tied up.  She was again taken and abused for a few days while the cops were searching for them.  When they released her she could tell the cops nothing since she was blindfolded and didn't see anything or anyone.  But that event, while unexpected, was so sexually superior to anything prior, she said.  But it did scare her as far as her daughter goes... and then shortly after she did get some psych help.  Our last chat she told me she was waiting the year before engaging in any sex to make sure she was clear of any HIV... she really never knew her attackers or where they came from and was now to her senses enough to be fearful of what she had done.

CASE #8

Jane is unique in so many ways.  Her and I go back to when I first poked my head into the Internet over three years ago.  Over the months and years we grew close in a different kind of way... not romantic (she fought off all overtures of that) but a kind of sexual intimacy only, limited to our typed words on the screen.  Part of her uniqueness has been her ability to keep private from me her personal life (that in itself is amazing... since over the years I have tried every "trick" I could think of to get her to reveal more of herself).  I never could penetrate that aspect of her being and while I know much about her sexual interests I know basically so little of her personally (hell, I don't even have her email address!).  What I do know is that she lives in a southern state, is oveer 30 years old, married, over 10 years at least... very elusive about having any kids although I have a suspicion she does not.  She's had some psych counseling in the past but I'm not sure why.  She enjoys reading (loves the old detective magazines of the 70's/80's) and writing, although she has never shared with me any or her writings.  She also has very intense feelings about being a murdered and sexually abused corpse.

Anyway... here is her story.  Jane had a good friend, also named Jane... married, 20 years old. One day when her friend dashed off to the store to get some last minute things for dinner she was abducted by knifepoint from the parking lot.  Later her friend turned up missing and after four days her naked body was found laying on its front, face turned to the side, up on a wooded hill some distance from a road.  Jane described dead Jane as as having an athletic body (being an avid swimmer), full breasts, 5'9", 130-140 lbs., tan lines, blonde hair with a streak, blue eyes; long legs and firm thighs; sweet looking.  The autopsy revealed she had been strangled with her own bra and raped in all orifaces.  Of particular note, and of interest to Jane as well, was that it was obvious that the murderer was anally raping her while strangling her based on the trauma to the anus and rectum.  There were two bite marks; one on the lower left breast and the other in the front of her left thigh.  Semen was recovered from her back in her throat, vagina, and rectum.  It was surmised by the law that she was abducted and still alive when she arrived at that location; the murderer performing the rape/murder right there.  Jane admitted to having necro-related fantasies since childhood but this event further enhanced her fantasies and her and I spent many chat hours speculating and re-living what her friend might have expereienced in those final minutes.

Jane's own sexual fantasies would include her imagining she were such a rape/murder victim.  For example, we would discuss about how her friend may have been in pain and anguish as the bra tightened around her neck.. while the "animal" was penetrating her anally... how her anus, constricting uncontrollably with her fear, literally milked the murderer's penis as she gasped her last breath... and how her face may have filled with fear.. knowing she was going to die and this stranger was filling her sexually.  We would talk about how the dead body laid exposed to the elements for 4 days, yet showed only subtle signs of decomposition (open casket funeral)... even down to the graphic discussion of insects crawling on various areas of her corpse; her upturned anus... her tongue protruding from her open mouth.  We would talk about her full breasts pushed into the ground... her ravaged and filled vagina attracting insects.  Jane, after all, had some insight into all this.. she had seen the crime scene photos... and supposedly she later married one of the cops who showed up at the scene.
Then we'd talk about the young boys finding the body... the cops showing up and what those men must have thought looking at the pretty and sexy body of her dead friend... a "dead piece of female meat", she would say,  laying exposed in the grass.  And how the medical examiner probed the body at the scene.. taking pics.  Then the cops lifting her and watching the breasts dangle and jiggle... the thighs ripple as they put the corpse on the stretcher, covered by only a sheet... her dead nipples showing through.  We would talk about the body, dead on the examining table... fluids still leaking from her orifaces... breasts, nipples, being touched and probed... turned and tossed limply... the once beautiful body  "mutilated" in the name of forensic science.  Jane empathisized with all this.. imagining herself as her friend.

For years after her friend's death she would return to the crime scene many times.. and especially to the vault in the mauseleum where the other "Jane" was interred.  Rubbing herself... touching the walls as if to "meld" with her friend's essence.  At one point Jane said, while alone in the mauseleum,  she pushed her own bare breasts against the wall where her friend was, trying to get close.. thinking a connection to transfer some some empathic energy existed... and using her intense sexual feelings... and feelings of sincere love and compassion... to try and communicate.
I should point out here that my friend, Jane, was not some incoherent nut.  We had many chats about all kinds of non-sexual subjects.  And she is very well-read and articulate... even a nice dry sense of humor.

EPILOG

Because Jane has been a relative mystery to me regarding her personal life I'd thought I'd include some speculation based on my years chatting with her.  Please keep in mind I am NOT a psych professional by any stretch of the imagination... but being around folks has taught me a few things.  If anyone reading this would care to speculate as well please feel free to drop me an email.

Trying to understand where Jane is coming from is like piecing together elements of a mystery.  Many folks with traumatic pasts and emotional problems I've chatted with do end up sharing their life stories to some extent, either verbally or in written form.  And for as close as Jane and I have gotten in net chats she has kept me away from the real issues and demons that plague her mind.  So all I can do is speculate based on little comments or nuances in our chats over the years.

In the beginning Jane indicated to me that she had undergone some psych counseling using an approach which she found valuable called, "Transpersonal Humanistic Psychology"... commenting how some psych docs prefer to favor using drugs instead.  I guess by nature of that remark one could speculate she has been under some psych care in the past and was prescribed drugs.  She told me once that if the therapy hadn't helped she might not be around today.  I took from that remark that her past must have really been traumatic.  When I asked what her therapy was for she simply indicated is was for her "fantasies and other issues".

During times of personal reflection she would share how she has resolved in her own mind that she will never attain total happiness or peace... her sexual emotions are intense and powerful... deals with immense pain and hurt daily... and that she lost trust or hope long ago.  I can guess by this that her loss of trust could suggest signs of family abuse at a young age.. someone she trusted and respected at one time.  A hint at this is that one time she did acknowledge she had suffered abuse in real life.  The fact she indicated her necro thoughts were from a young age could suggest those thoughts started as a result of the early abuse.  While guys (like me) can be "born" into certain sexual interests I have found women seem to develop extreme sexual interests along the way, many times as the result of some life trauma or experience.

Another element that may support the early childhood abuse by an authority figure.. and I hate to sound stereotypic but my experience on the net supports this idea... she is from the rural South.  Her friend, "Jane", was married at 20, or earlier, which tends to be more common in the South.. and along the rural Eastern mountain range there tends to be more "inter-family" abuse.  Of course, I may be totally off base here... but only Jane can confirm or deny this.

As time went on we chatted much about her sexual fantasies and how intense they can sometimes be for her.  She gravitated to the net and somehow managed to have some "bad" experiences on line.  From that I can only assume that some guy or guys may have wanted a bit more from her emotionally than she was willing to give and things may have gotten nasty.  So by the time I came along her defenses were up and she closed down to some degree.
But, the bottom line... I think Jane became depressive enough over the years to be treated professionally (sometimes with success, sometimes not).  Symptoms of this are her enhanced sexual emotions, relative interest in maintaining her privacy, and her fragmented comments over the years suggesting abuse, and admitted therapy... and noticable attempts to maintain emotional control with systematic "schedules" for coping as the feelings emerged, probably suggested by her therapy.

Jane has been, and continues to be, a good friend.  There's not a lot of sharing of personal issues betweeen us; it's more like we understand each other through our fantasies.  Over the years I truly wished I could have helped her more if I only knew more.  But we've helped each other in some ways.  Hopefully I've given her confidence that not every guy on the net is a nutcase and to that end I believe she has entrusted me with much information she has not shared before to others.  She has been a staunch advocate on keeping my site here going and it was at her urging that I include her story and my remarks as a case study.  Maybe that in itself says something.  Thanks, Jane, I hope I haven't disappointed you. :)

 

Sometimes necro or sleepysex fantasies can take on other strange and unexpected slants.  One is being the victim of some dramatic, or traumatic event.  Sometimes it's linked to sex, and sometimes not.  I'm not sure if these folks found compatiable partners in which to share... but one never knows.  A common thread in all this seems to be a surrendering of "control"; sexual fantasies sometimes take a form of something totally opposite a person can be in real life.

CASE #9

I ran into a college co-ed from Georgia who fants about being struck by a car and the driver of the assaulting vehicle proceeds to have sex with her body as she fades away into death... his orgasm being the last conscious thing she feels.

CASE #10

On a similar note, there was a mid aged woman from Iowa who simply wanted to be blown up.. I mean, mangled, crushed, etc.  No sex involved in her fantasy.
 
- Interview with Real Necro, Karen Greenlee -

THE UNREPENTANT NECROPHILE: 
An Interview with Karen Greenlee 

By Jim Morton 

Karen Greenlee is a necrophiliac. Five years ago she made national headlines when she drove off in a hearse and wasn't heard from for two days. Instead of delivering the body to the cemetery she decided to spend some time alone with the corpse.  Eventually, the police found her in the next county, overdosed on codeine Tylenol.   She was charged with illegally driving a hearse and interfering with the burial (there is no law in California against necrophilia). In the casket with the body Karen left a four-and-a-half page letter confessing to amorous episodes with between twenty to forty dead men. The letter was filled with remorse over her sexual desires: "Why do I do it? Why? Why? Fear of love, relationships. No romance ever hurt like this ... It's the pits. I'm a morgue rat. This is my rathole, perhaps my grave." 

The letter proved to be her downfall. For stealing the body and the hearse, she got eleven days in jail, a $255 fine, and was placed on two years probation with medical treatment recommended. Meanwhile, the mother of the dead man sued, claiming the incident scarred her psyche. She asked for $1 million, but settled for $117, 000 in general and punitive damages. 

The press had a field day, the lawyers got rich, and Karen lost her career and source of sexual satisfaction. Karen is now more comfortable with her sexuality. "When I wrote that letter I was still listening to society. Everyone said necrophilia was wrong, so I must be doing something wrong. But the more people tried to convince me I was
crazy, the more sure of my desires I became." 

The following interview was held in Karen's apartment, a small studio filled with books, necrophilic drawings and satanic adornments. 
<> -------------
<>Back during the trial, from what I read in the newspapers, it seemed like you got very little support.
<>No, none whatsoever. The newspapers were the worst. To this day I hate reporters.  One of them even compared me to Richard Trenton Chase, "The Vampire Killer!"  What support there was was like family obligations. One of my brothers refused to have anything to do with me. He said, "I just want to remember her as she was." He came up to me later and apologized, but he still isn't comfortable around me. My other brother was more supportive, but even he had to ask, "How'd you do it?" 

Before the trial I had a boyfriend who found out abut it. He got mad and slapped me around. He said I wasn't even a woman and I could go fuck my dead bodies. I was surprised. He knew! Apparently a lot of people knew and I don't know how they knew. 

With guys, they always felt I went for the bodies because I was hard up, and if I went to bed with them then that would change me and they would be the one who would give me such satisfaction I wouldn't need those old corpses anymore. I've run into that a lot. Sometimes I had guys come on to me for just that reason. 

<>The question I am most often asked is, "How does she do it?"
<>Yes, that's the question! People ask questions like that-- even people who seem pretty cool, seem to have open minds-- then when you tell them, they say, "That's very interesting," then don't want to have much to do with me. I don't mind telling people how I do it. It doesnUt matter to me, but anyone adept sexually shouldn't have to ask. People have this misconception that there has to be penetration for sexual gratification, which is bull! The most sensitive part of a woman is the front area anyway and that is what needs to be stimulated. 

Besides, there are different aspects of sexual expression: touchy-feely, 69, even holding hands. That body is just lying there, but it has what it takes to make me happy. The cold, the aura of death, the smell of death, the funereal surroundings, it all contributes. 

<>The smell of death?
<>Sure, I find the odor of death very erotic. There are death odors and there are death odors. Now you get your body that's been floating in the bay for two weeks, or a burn victim, that doesn't attract me much, but a freshly embalmed corpse is something else. 

There is also this attraction to blood. When you're on top of a body it tends to purge blood out of its mouth, while you're making passionate love .. You'd have to be there, I guess. 

<>Of course, with all the AIDS going around ...
<>That's the reason I haven't tried anything lately. I'm sure I'd have found a way to get  into one of those funeral homes by now, but the group I find attractive-- young men in  their twenties-- are the ones who are dying of AIDS.
<>
<><>Did you usually attend the funerals of your corpse-lovers?
<>Yeah. It was convenient working in the funeral homes. I'd get to drive out to the cemetery with the family. I'd get to mourn right along with the family at the loss of that loved one. Except I was groaning in a little different tone! People can't really tell if you're grief stricken or passion-stricken. I've had members of the families put their
<> arms around me and say, "We're so glad you could come!" Then you have to spin this big old yarn, "Yeah, I knew him in school...." If the guy didn't have a girlfriend in life they think you were ... "Oh, she's the one!" 
<>
<><>You weren't in Sacramento at the time of the trial, were you?
<>No, I was working in a funeral home in another city and going to school at the same time. It's weird, but the day I got a telegram about the trial telling me to get in touch with my attorney, I went in to the funeral home and was fired for things I had done at that funeral home. Somebody, I guess, got wise of me. I know I wasn't seen, but I
<> think somebody just figured it out. Of course, they didn't know about Sacramento yet.  They found out later! The same day, within five hours of each other, two totally different things caught up with me. 

I worked in that funeral home for almost a year. That's where I did a lot of my extracurricular activities. I had keys so I'd slip back in after hours and spend all night there. A guy lived at the funeral home in an apartment downstairs. He drank so he usually passed out. He had a .357 magnum under his pillow. 

The guy that court case was about-- 

<>John Mercure?
<>Yeah. I understand he was moved out of the cemetery after the trial. 

That happened at the time I was breaking into this funeral homes. There was a side room, one of those arrangement areas, where they always have their case folders out.  I read there was an exhumation order for John Mercure. Then I read something in the paper about it. His mother wanted the body exhumed, said she wouldn't bury her cat there. On the day he was suppose to be exhumed I snuck out into a field across from where he was buried. I sat out in the field and watched them dig up the body and give him to this other mortician. They shipped him back to Michigan.

<>When did you first become aware of your necrophilia?
<>It's something I've been attracted to all my life. I used to hold funeral services for my pets when they died. Had a little pet graveyard. I lived in a small town and the fireman's barbecue was next door to the funeral home. To go to the bathroom you had to use the facilities in the funeral home. I'd find any excuse I could to go to the bathroom, then I'd take side trips and wander around the mortuary.  <>
<>
<>It didn't scare you like the other kids?
<>No, I loved it! I was real curious. I'd wander around the halls.... 
<>
<><>Do you miss working in funeral homes?
<>Yes, terribly! Even if I wasn't a necrophile, I like mortuary work. I enjoy embalming and everything. Except for obese people. The bodies I hated working on most were Obese people. 'Specially if they'd been autopsied. Their guts would slide out on the floor and shit ... and all this melty fat. Yeeeech!
<>
<><>You said something previously about "The Vampire Killer," Richard Trenton
<> Chase. He was from Sacramento, wasn't he?
<>Yeah, the second funeral home I worked for-- I wasn't working there at the time-- got the bodies of Chase's victims, a man and a woman and their child, so I hear the gory details of what the bodies looked like. They were really butchered. They were disemboweled with shit stuffed in their mouths. Chase started by killing animals and
<> drinking their blood and when he wasn't satisfied with that he graduated to people. He killed this couple, then kidnapped their child, killed it and later threw it in a trash can.
<> The mortician who embalmed the bodies said he hardly ever got queasy about anything, but he got sick when he saw those bodies!  <>
<>
<>What's the weirdest case you ever encountered.
<>Hmmm ... There was one kid who fell out of a car while his mother was making a turn and she managed to run over his head. Another kid choked to death on a cigarette wrapper. One guy committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with a pellet rifle. He had to shoot himself several times and it took him a while to die, but he  finally succeeded. There was another guy I worked on. He was a transvestite who somehow strangled himself with his nylons. I don't think it was intentional, I think he  was trying to achieve heightened orgasm through strangulation and he ended up hanging himself. He wouldn't be the first to make that mistake.  <>
<>
<>How about the most unusual funeral?
<>One time this bunch of religious fanatics held a funeral for one of their members. They didn't want her embalmed, they just wanted her dressed and in the casket. We usually didn't do that, but we decided to be nice and put her up in the stateroom. We were standing outside of that stateroom and we heard someone saying, "Rise in the name of Jesus!" They were preying and slapping the body. They were talking in tongues. That was weird!
<>
<><>There seems to be a strong camaraderie between morticians. Almost like a secret society.
<>Very much so. Morticians are very tight with each other because most people won't have anything to do with them. I used to find if I went to a party I'd always be introduced like, "This is Karen and she's a mortician." But they don't say, "Here's Karen-- she's a secretary," or "she's a veterinary assistant." A lot of people are under the misconception that morticians are very straight, very somber. If they ever went back into the prep room and heard all the jokes that are cracked it would blow that theory right out the window.
<>
<><>Did any of those morticians ever testify for or against you at the trial?
<>One funeral director testified on behalf of funeral practices. He was asked how often necrophilia occurs. He said, "It's almost unheard of in this profession."   <>
<>
<>That's a major lie!
<>Yes, definitely ... necrophilia is more prevalent than most people imagine. Funeral homes just don't report it. There was one place that I broke into, and I know that they knew something was wrong. They actually caught me in the act and let me get away. 

At another place I was working, this guy came up to me and said, "Someone's been messin' with the body. It looks like they were trying to fuck the body!" I said, "Oh my goodness! Really?" I think they figured it out later. I know they know now. 

One mortician I worked with used to like to a trocar [a large hollow needle used to suction fluids from corpses] and push it up inside any male cadaver's dick. He'd say, "Oh look, the corpse has got a boner." This guy was really weird. He looked like Larry of the Three Stooges. I think he had some necrophilic tendencies. He'd get real upset
if there weren't any female bodies to work on. He'd start pacing. I caught him one time in the prep room. He said he was just taking a pee in the hopper at the end of the table. He was just pulling up his pants when I walked in. I said, "I won't tell if you don't." 

<>You say you were once caught in the act of necrophilia once?
<>Yeah. I had tried to kill myself and was living in a halfway house a couple of blocks up from this funeral home. I decided to go to the mausoleum and try and kill myself again. The mausoleum had a door connecting it to the mortuary. I was sitting in there, real depressed, when, just for the hell of it, I decided to try running my driver's license along the edge of the door and click! the door popped open. I couldn't believe it, so I tried it again and the door popped open again! I went into the prep room and there happened to be a body in there. I had me some fun, did my thing and forgot all about killing myself. I told the folks at the halfway house that I stayed the night with friends.  I went in there several times. Sometimes there were absolutely no bodies, so I turned around and snuck back out. I usually went in the back door. 

About a week later I snuck back into the funeral home. I was on the prep table having a good old time, when all of a sudden I felt like there was somebody nearby. Next thing, I heard people walking down the hallway. I quietly jumped off the table and threw the sheet back over the body. My clothes were in quite a state of disarray, and
I had blood on me and everything else-- it had been an autopsy case. There was a casket with the lid open in the side casket-room, so I ran and hid behind it. The casket was on a church-truck so they couldn't see me, but they could see my legs. It was a man and a woman. There were standing there saying, "Who are you? What are you doing here?" One of them said to the other, "you go get the gun and call the cops and I'll stay down here." I knew I only had one chance then, so I busted out and ran. I knew the layout of the place, so I just ran down the hall and out of the place and out of the cemetery. 

At the time I still had a friend who worked at the funeral home. He said, "Somebody broke into the funeral home. They know it was you." They put in an alarm after that. I think they called the police, but there were never any charges. I'm sure they didn't want the publicity. 

That was the last time I got very close, except for I've broken into a few tombs. 

<>Have you seen any changes in people's attitudes towards necrophilia?
<>Yeah, when I came out here I noticed it. It's almost a fad! They're not really necrophiles, but pseudo-necrophiles. Like a death cult! But there are probably a lot of people who would do it if they had the opportunity. 

Perhaps there is this vast network of necrophiles, who, for lack of a forum, will never know of each other's existence. 

Well, there's Leilah [Wendell's] group [American Association of Necrophilic Research and Enlightenment]. They try and get some information out about it. 

<>It must be frustrating when people say, "we have to cure you," or "you've got to be more like us."
<>It is. For a while I found myself thinking, "Yeah, this isn't normal. Why can't I be like other people. Why doesn't the same pair of shoes fit me just right?" I went through all that personal hell and finally I accepted myself and realized that's just me. ThatUs my nature and I might as well enjoy it. I'm miserable when I try to be something I'm not.  And too, a lot of these people who are putting me down have hang-ups worse than I have, or they do things that might be considered questionable by their peers. I had a gay friend who, when he found out I was a necrophile, said, "You can go to hell for that." After 1979, when I was put on probation, part of the probation requirement was
<> that I seek therapy. I had a really nice social worker. She was cool. Very non-judgmental. The more I talked to these people, the more I realized necrophilia makes sense for me. The reason I was having a problem with it was because I couldn't accept myself. I was still trying to live my life by other peoples standards. To accept it was peace. These people who are always trying to change me only helped me get myself more in touch with my feelings. I used to go from the therapist's office to the funeral home. It didn't work, folks! 
<>

As an epilog to this interview, through a good friend who had a better than 20 year relationship with Greenlee I have been told that she lives a very private life now, changed her name, and is a bit of a recluse.  While I have seen a private contemporary pic of her (like many of us, she's gotten heavier with age) I have not seen any pics of her in the public mediums unless there's something from the press going back to when she was in the public eye and much thinner.

- From Morgue to Mortician: The Hands That Touch You -

My site concentrates on the sexual fantasy of necrophilia but there is also a reality for some folks.. a way by which they carry their desires to reality.  Obviously, the folks who can do that for the most part are those folks whose professions present themselves with having access to the dead.  But when we get into real life sex with the dead there is another motivation beyond simply sexual lust or an extension of love and compassion... and that is a relief of emotional stress.

Stories about what happens when a dead body is resting in a morgue are fairly common.  While there is not a lot of true intercourse (unless you clean up after you run the risk of your 'evidence' being found) there is a fair amount of touchy-feely and with more than just the hands.  Recently I was chatting with a morgue attendent from Texas.  He told me of many bodies he has touched sexually... and many were young people from accidents, illnesses, or overdoses (compared to funeral homes who normally have older dead folks).  He talked about deep kissing dead women... sucking and kissing breasts... fingering every oriface, etc.  In another section of my site I make mention of an attendent who had his way with a deceased 17 year old cancer victim.  The funeral home discovered what was left of her emaciated vagina was filled with semen and supposedly the mortician reported it to the law which resulted in simply the attendent loosing his job for fear of embarrassing the institution in a public police report.  There was a woman attendent in Singapore who told of having had sex with three dead men before an associate discovered her at it one day.  Oddly, he kept it quiet because he was doing the dead girls.

I think logically we can make some basic assumptions about the emotional motivations at play in these kinds of death encounters.  While the average person in occupations with access to the dead could indeed have some sexual preference for intimacy with the dead there is also the issue of emotional stress entering in the picture.  This stress manifests itself as a result of seeing so much death.  After all, for most of us we can measure our basic workday by how well we performed our job, relationships with others during the day, social interactions, and other parameters that can put us into various moods.  People who are around death constantly are performing jobs that essentially involve little or no social interaction... often simply a one-on-one with a corpse.  Add to that the condition and ages of the dead, from horrific traffic accidents to infant deaths, it's not too difficult imagining how the mind could compensate for that. 

Many of the stories I have heard from morticians and others who deal with death on a daily basis are more like necrophilic 'acts' rather than a deeper desire or compulsion for satisfying a sexual need within themselves.  For example, I once chatted with a mortician who operated a very prominant and successful funeral home in a rather well-to-do community.  He said his basic sexual fantasies centered around mild bondage with his wife which she also enjoyed.  But, he admitted to having had many a sexual encounters over his career with the dead that came across his table.  To him it relieved boredom and the stress of seeing all that misery and mutilation and dealing with grieving relatives.  He called it 'going on a date' (which I have come to recognize is a common perception in the approach of sex with the dead for those in the funeral industry).  He would have oral, anal, and vaginal sex during his dates.  He told me of having had a 'date' with a 25 year old secretary who had died of heart failure... a 23 year old woman whose head was fairly mutilated in a traffic accident yet her body was 'like that of a model'... and the list goes on.  One contact he had that kind of bothered him was the accidental pool drowning of the 12 year old daughter of a family friend.  He said she was just absolutely stunning in her looks and looked far older than her age.  He went on a 'date' with her as well.  In fact, she was to be cremated, so that allowed for less risk of any sex play being discovered later if the body is exhumed.  He said he enjoyed the closeness with her physically and found it compelling that his semen was inside her all during the wake.  What bothered him was that he had no sexual interest in 'under-aged' corpses.. but in the end, the dead are dead.. regardless of age. 

I also chatted with a mortician's wife who also assisted in the family funeral business.  She told me that hubby would have sex with various dead females... and she would engage in sex with dead guys, quite often.  Sometimes hubby would help in 'stuffing' the appropriate part inside her for best penetration.   Sucking on a dead penis was her affinity.   She referred to the encounter as having a 'date'.  When I inquired as to how busy they might be she said that business was constant and hubby was devoted to staying busy all the time.  They seldom took time off or had vacations.  Such is the funeral business... a 24/7 operation.  So given that, it's no wonder tension and stress relief takes unconventional avenues.  In reality her and hubby engaged in wild and fast sex with each other more along what their fantasies might be.

Were these people necrophiliacs?  All a matter of perspective I suppose, but their individual sexual preferences did not include necro interests.  One of the most compelling and sensitive, and erotic stories I have heard first hand was from a doctor.. an M.D. from out east who stumbled into my necro chat channel on IRC one day.  I mention elsewhere on my site that given the proper circumstances I would challenge any guy not to touch in some sexual way a beautiful dead female if he were left alone with her.  What this doc did is typical of what any male might do.
He came to the channel because he had some guilt for what he did and was wondering if because of his actions had he crossed some moral and sexual borderline and became a necrophiliac, much like one might join the Republican party or something.  He told me that part of his job as a local physician in his rural community was also to act as county coroner for those rare instances a death needed coroner review.  Over his career in this position he handled many dead bodies and performed simple autopsies and never gave a thought to having sexual contact with one... but one day that changed.  A local 16 year old female, 'the local beauty queen' as he described her, died from a broken neck in a freak fall.  He was to give a rudimentary autopsy since the cause of death was not really in question.  Her body was brought in to his facility one evening and removed from the body bag and left on the examining table.  He was immediately struck by her beauty and felt the normal sadness for her having died so young. 

Later that evening as he was leaving the office he again saw her on the table and approached her.  He described his overwhelming feeling of sadness and he began to touch her and caress her body in a kind of sympathetic way.  Then the touching went to kissing.. he kissed her breasts.. lips... stroked her vaginal opening.  Then he said he had sex with her dead body.  He said he was so overcome with emotion.. and desire at her apparent beauty... and the waste of her death at so young an age.  He described forcing her mouth open with his toungue to taste her tongue... nibbling at her nipples... licking her vaginal opening... he even inserted himself into her mouth.  Eventually he orgasmed inside her dead, dry vagina.  When he was done he washed her body down to remove any evidence of where he had been.  But then guilt set in because he had never felt like this or done anything like this before.   That's when he did the search on 'necrophilia' and we ended up meeting in a chat room.  We chatted twice on two separate days... I told him I thought he was not a confirmed card-carrying necrophile but rather a normal male in his feelings and emotions... and that a situation presented itself that he felt compelled to act upon.  He was not a necrophile at all... but what he did was a necrophilic act.  After our second chat I've not seen or heard from him since.  I assume he came to grips with what he did and moved on in life.

Another aspect to the desire for necro activity is an intense curiosity about death.  We all have it... yet sometimes those close to it act upon an emotion from time to time.   I've chatted with a number of people.. males and females... who do not normally have access to the dead yet managed somehow to 'explore' their feelings with a dead person.  Typically these are people, generally younger people, who might work part-time for a morgue or funeral home... then maybe share their experiences with a friend.  One such case was a 19 year old female college student from out east.  She told me a close male friend was working as a janitor in a local funeral home that doubled as a residence for the owners.  He would tell her stories of a couple times doing the touchy-feely thing with the dead women... even kissing and breast nibbling.  Well, she happened to mention to him about how it might feel to have sex with a dead guy... presumming the guy had something usable to have sex with.  Sure enough, boyfriend called her one evening and said there was a dead guy with a reasonably sized penis.  She told me that while her friend stood guard down the hall she climbed up on the table and rode that guy until she had one of the best orgasms in her life.  This event repeated itself a couple days later.  When we chatted she was confused about her feelings and the fact she found this so sexually arousing.  She had some guilt as well.  The second guy she 'did' was in his 30's.. auto accident victim leaving a wife and two kids.  While her orgasm was intense with his dead body she couldn't help but wonder that maybe the guy had been loyal to his wife and she was a form of 'the other woman' somehow desecrating his loyalty to his wife.  Yet his penis, even in it's flacid state, was fairly long and she enjoyed wondering how it must have felt to his wife when fully erect.

There was another similar situation told to me by another girl from Oklahoma.  She ended up getting a part time job at a rural funeral home doing some administrative work which gave her access at all times of day or night.  She was 20 and told about a local guy she knew who died from cancer.  She was alone with him one night as he was laid out on the table and she felt so sorry for him and her emotions took over.  She ended up kissing him all over and doing him orally... graphically telling me how she managed to suck some fluid out of him and that made her orgasm.

<>The important thing here is to understand that a sexual fantasy or a sexual reality can be spawned by a hidden sexual desire or stimulated by other emotional elements such as stress that results in single or composite acts outside the person's norm.  It can also be an extension of a simple curiosity about death.  Morgue attendents and morticians just happen to be at the forefront of having access to the dead and ample opportunity to act on their emotional impulses.   But no one has to be a true necrophile to have sex with the dead. 


- Misc. References and Links -

NECROPHILIA
NOUN :
1. Obsessive fascination with death and corpses.
2. Erotic attraction to or sexual contact with corpses.
OTHER FORMS:
nec´´ro·phil´i·ac´´ (--k´´) — ADJECTIVE
nec´ro·phile´´ (-fl´´) — NOUN
nec´´ro·phil´ic (-fl´k) — ADJECTIVE
(The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language)

Ok, all you researchers... 
This is the place you can get sources to fill up that bibliography page!
There are many sites on the net that proclaim themselves to hold the necro interest but most if not all are simply adult sites aimed at eroticism; you've probably discovered that if you used a search engine on 'necrophilia'.  The links and sources below represent places/material that contain something substantial to the discussion of necrophilia.  Just remember that I am simply providing the link/source and by doing that I am not necessarily agreeing with its content nor can I vouch for its authenticity.
IF YOU DISCOVER OTHER REFERENCES/SOURCES PLEASE LET ME KNOW!

Web Links

http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/401/401lect13.htm
This link is a page from the site of North Carolina Weslyan College, School of Criminal Justice.  Assistant Professor of Justice Studies, Dr. Tom O'Connor, has a rather large site concerning criminal studies and this link is from his lecture material that describes sexual sadism as a motivation for crime. (His source references are included in the Books section below)

http://www.corpus-delicti.com/sadistic_behavior.html
Also a source for serial killing crimes, this site is a forensic reference site called Knowledge Solutions.  This link is a review of a book, Sadistic Behavor: A Literature Review, by Beaza and Brent.

http://www.westgatenecromantic.com
I included this link because my friend, Leilah Wendell, is noted as a consumate necrophile in the real world sense and is well-known for her books, interviews, and real life experiences with necrophilia and images of death.  Her interest in necrophilia is unique as it encompasses a physical and spiritual relationship with the decomposed dead.

Reference Sources

Dietz P., Hazelwood R, Warren J., (1996) "The Sexually Sadistic Serial Killer",  Journal of Forensic Sciences; 41(6): 970-974
Rosman, J. & P. Resnick (1989) "Sexual Attraction to Corpses: A Psychiatric Review of Necrophilia" Bulletin of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law 17(2): 153-63. (For the complete report check Chapter 11A)
Lane, B. & W. Gregg (1992) "The Encyclopedia of Serial Killers". NY: Berkley Books.
Bradford J.M.W., Gratzer T., (1995) "Offender and Offense Characteristics of Sexual Sadists: A Comparative
Study",  Journal of forensic Sciences; 40(3): 450-455
Love, B. (1994) "Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices". NY: Barricade Books.
Dally, Dr. Peter (1975) "The Fantasy Game: How Male & Female Sexual Fantasies Affect Our Lives". NY: Stein & Day.
Cossilin and Wilson.(1980). "Sexual Variations". New York: Simon and Schuster.
Laws, D.R., W. O'Donohue, (1997) "Sexual Deviance: Theory, Assessment, and Treatment". NY, The Guilford Press
D.M. Daily, (1988) "The Sexually Unusual: Guide To Helping And Understanding", NY, The Harrington Park Press
L. Wendell, (2000) "Love Never Dies- The Journal of a Necrophile", New Orleans, The Westgate Press
J. Harvey, (1965) "Confessions Of A Necrophile", New York, Dalhousie Press, Inc. (Note: This book is not in print nor likely to be in any library but the entire introduction by L. A. Lowag, PH.D. can be reviewed, along with the entire chapter one of the book on my site, HERE.  Lowag's introduction contains some interesting opinions and conclusions regarding sexual deviations as they were viewed in the sexually repressed 50's and 60's.)


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